Luna HSM: TalkingTrust Video Series

Luna HSM: TalkingTrust Video Series

Secure your devices, identities and transactions with
Thales Luna HSMs and ecosystem partners – the foundation of digital trust

TalkingTrust with Thales and CyberArk – DevSecOps

TalkingTrust with CyberArk and Thales – DevSecOpsAs organizations adopt DevSecOps principles for rapid application delivery, they are heavily leveraging CyberArk to centrally manage and deliver appropriate secrets to the applications. Vault stores thousands or even millions of highly sensitive secrets in such environments and encrypts them in storage to prevent any unauthorized access. Thales HSM solutions encrypt the Vault master key in a hardware root of trust to provide maximum security and comply with regulatory requirements. In this video, we discuss how organizations can enhance vault’s security controls by leveraging Thales Luna HSM to meet the most stringent compliance regulations & automate their DevOps processes.



In this discussion, join experts from CyberArk and Thales to discuss how two industry-leading companies offer a joint solution to solve both Secrets Management and root-of-trust data protection and encryption, simplifying security for application development and containerized software environments.

Blair Canavan, Director of Business Development at Thales
Brandon Traffanstedt, Sr. Director, Global Technology Office at CyberArk

Review all integrations and supporting documents for Thales with CyberArk.
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Video Transcript

TalkingTrust Series – Thales and CyberArk – DevSecOps

00:07 Hello everyone. My name is Blair Canavan, and I work for Thales Cloud Protection and Licensing.

00:14 With me today is Brandon Traffanstedt. Hi Brandon, it's nice to have you on today. Welcome.

00:19 Hi Blair. Hi everybody great to be here.

00:23 Well, we've been talking over the last few days and I think we've got a pretty good TalkingTrust video in the series today.

00:31 I'm pretty excited because as you and I both know we've been figuring out what's

00:35 the best way to explain how our two companies have come together. What

00:39 we're going to do today is at a very high level and very lighthearted level

00:43 we're going to explain a little bit

00:45 about how DevSecOps and encryption and tokenization can come

00:49 together. It's not something that rolls

00:51 off the tongue but it's something that

00:53 as we've obviously discussed, a lot of

00:56 organizations are wondering how do these

00:58 two companies figure it out. So what I’d

01:00 like to do is, I’d like to pull up a few slides and we're not going to slide

01:04 this thing to death today so

01:07 let's hope that we don't go too deep,

01:09 but I’ll pull up a couple slides, ask a

01:11 few questions, give you the opportunity

01:13 to explain a little bit about what CyberArk is doing and of course with Thales as

01:18 your partner maybe we'll finish up by describing

01:22 why did you decide to use Thales in your solution and why are we

01:26 working together in the market.

01:27 So let me pull up some slides just to

01:29 get things going and talk a little bit about our history working together.

01:35 Maybe a few folks that are joining us today know a little bit about CyberArk and Thales independently but we've

01:42 been actually working together now for

01:44 quite a number of years and we're two of the largest security vendors in this

01:48 space on the cyber side of things and we initially got our technologies

01:53 together with what our products are

01:55 referred to as Thales Luna HSMs

01:58 (Hardware Security Modules) with the

02:00 CyberArk privileged access management solution or PAM for short, and we got

02:05 back together in 2016 so this has been

02:07 going on just over five years, and as you can see here on the slide

02:11 we've got a few integrations already earmarked in our

02:15 joint offerings on our websites and our resource areas within those, so if you wanted to

02:21 download or grab any of these documents

02:23 post conversation today we can certainly do that

02:30 but here's what we're here to talk about

02:31 today Brandon. We're going to talk a

02:33 little bit about what's called Conjur

02:36 and so I’ll let you take the baton in just a moment and talk a

02:39 little bit about how working with the

02:42 CipherTrust product or the

02:44 CipherTrust Data Security Platform specific to

02:46 DevSecOps and also how we

02:50 work the Luna HSMs into this as a root of trust

02:53 and so I know that we've

02:55 got a few areas to cover so if you're

02:57 comfortable taking the slide to the next one,

03:02 I’ll give you this opportunity to walk through a little bit.

03:04 Awesome and thank you again, Blair.

03:06 I’ll tell you 2016, I mean, you said five

03:10 years ago but it feels like

03:12 just forever. I realize it's not

03:15 forever in the grand scheme of CyberArk

03:18 and Thales’ existence. CyberArk came

03:20 around in 1999, I think, and slap my hand if

03:23 I'm out of line, but Thales was

03:25 around the same time around 2000

03:27 something like that but, the world's

03:29 changed significantly since then but

03:31 even since 2016 there was a

03:34 presidential election, there was the

03:36 Brexit referendum, Zika was a thing,

03:38 I remember talking about Zika virus

03:40 that was a thing back in 2016.

03:43 And interestingly enough one of the

03:46 big things that happened around that

03:48 time was we'd had years to learn this beforehand

03:51 but security vendors like us we started

03:54 seeing that security in a vacuum, non-integrated

03:59 security, sort of staying in all of our

04:02 own lanes, which we'll talk about more in the session here

04:05 it didn't make good sense. Because then

04:08 our customers would have to say hey

04:10 CyberArk to integrate with Thales they

04:11 tell us to integrate with CyberArk can

04:13 you guys talk to each other please.

04:15 So in 2016 we started working together

04:18 it wasn't just us, it was security

04:21 vendors realizing that we must build

04:24 strong integration partnerships to

04:26 establish a strong security foundation

04:30 and I think that is the cornerstone,

04:36 that's the lifeblood, whatever you want

04:37 to call it of sort of how our

04:39 partnership has grown over the years

04:41 with kind of what you're seeing here you

04:43 know we'll talk about both sides I think,

04:44 Blair, the foundation but also taking

04:48 that very strong and solid foundation of trust

04:51 and then iterating it to be a little bit

04:54 closer to applications instead of humans

04:58 to put encryption in motion

05:01 versus serving as the powerful backbone

05:04 of a strong security practice. So as you

05:06 can tell I'm super excited about kind of where

05:09 the partnership began

05:11 but also how it's how it's been

05:13 growing over the years.

05:15 That's great and you know this dovetails

05:16 really nicely into the foundation of

05:18 digital trust or digital transformation

05:21 two of the elements in our go to market

05:24 strategy so when you when you use these

05:27 terms I think what we're really trying

05:29 to highlight here is that as we're

05:31 migrating away or to or from

05:34 we're all trying to work out what's the

05:36 best way to accomplish this with partners like

05:39 CyberArk, like Thales, are we in sync and

05:42 so I'm happy to see and hear what you

05:44 think about how we can make that happen.

05:48 Certainly glad to chat on it.

05:52 You mentioned digital transformation right

05:54 and I feel like that's the beginning

05:56 of every presentation you hear

05:58 these days like the world has shifted rightfully so

06:03 coming up from time to time it still is

06:05 shifting right it's a growing process

06:08 but you know even looking in and I’ll

06:10 talk specific to CyberArk for a second

06:12 for us like the thing that we do like our foundation

06:17 is the idea of managing strong access

06:21 but I’ll submit to you all who are

06:22 watching - strong access itself has

06:25 changed - from you know back in

06:29 2016 back in 2000 even

06:32 folks like domain admin, local admin, UID 0

06:35 accounts, stuff like that like, we

06:38 started to manage those things to vault

06:41 them to rotate them but that started to

06:43 shift from humans to non-humans

06:46 applications now had powerful identities

06:48 too. As your organizations continue to

06:51 grow and procure more security solutions

06:54 those also require powerful access to

06:56 run, so for us we saw that shift we saw

07:00 the sort of change of developers who

07:03 need strong access, their code that needs

07:05 strong access too, as well as this idea

07:08 of portability of security from on-prem

07:12 to hybrid to cloud. Yt's interesting

07:15 because that's also how our integration

07:18 with Thales Luna HSMs evolved from looking at things

07:21 in a very self-hosted manner to seeing

07:24 both CyberArk and Thales deployments

07:26 move to things that were hosted by CyberArk

07:29 and Thales to become more cloud aware

07:32 so you know even at the

07:34 foundational level when we started, we

07:36 had to prepare ourselves for the

07:37 evolution not only of identity and

07:40 access but also of where our customers

07:42 chose to consume and leverage our services too.

07:46 It's kind of nifty.

07:49 Before you go onto this slide in great detail

07:54 I think what I’d really like to

07:56 tease out on that point is

07:58 there an assumption or is there a

08:00 presumption that all of this is just

08:02 built in - it's automatic - it's just

08:03 happening and are you seeing that

08:06 presumption still persist in

08:08 DevSecOps today and I think you had

08:11 mentioned you know what we're trying to

08:13 achieve here is we're trying to secure

08:15 the security maybe I’ll let you speak to

08:17 that as you walk through this slide with us.

08:20 Blair that's just it. The

08:22 idea of transparent security that's one

08:26 of the big themes that has sort of been

08:28 morphing since we first started working

08:30 together. It used to be back

08:32 then you could get away on the

08:35 security side with adding in percent of

08:39 I’ll call it operational slowdown

08:42 in honor of good security right it was

08:44 it was something that we all knew it's

08:46 going happen but then

08:49 DevOps started to happen and folks began

08:51 to expect this transparent security by design.

08:56 any security that caused .1 % of operational slowdown

09:01 was a constraint and that word started

09:03 to float around so, Blair, to your point,

09:06 the idea of something being built in

09:09 something being effortless from a

09:11 security standpoint it used to be a

09:13 thing that we were just like oh that'd

09:14 be really cool to something that's

09:16 necessary and my favorite part is

09:19 we seeded this in terms of our

09:21 partnership in the very beginning. There

09:24 was no lag there was no wait and

09:27 when it came to securing the security

09:29 that's the beauty here as organizations

09:31 like those of you who are watching

09:35 started to manage all those secrets to bring them

09:37 into CyberArk to rotate them you brought

09:39 in your vulnerability scanners you

09:41 brought in your robotic process

09:42 automation all that came in

09:45 one of the questions became wait a minute

09:48 how do you secure

09:50 secret zero of CyberArk, how do you see

09:54 the encryption stack of the thing

09:56 that you're putting all the keys to your

09:58 kingdom in how do you secure the kingdom

10:01 that's holding your keys to the kingdom

10:03 and that's where Thales Luna HSMs came in.

10:05 So really the keys we've talked about

10:08 keys you hear the expression keys but in

10:11 terms of managing and storing and

10:13 generating and securing them and sharing

10:16 those keys it's our two organizations

10:18 that have figured this out.

10:20 I think what really is elemental

10:22 here is that whether you're doing

10:25 something on-prem whether you're doing

10:27 something in the cloud whether you're

10:28 doing something in a hybrid this this is

10:31 one of the biggest challenges

10:32 organizations have is the afterthought

10:34 is geez how do we manage those keys and

10:37 what are we going to do so I think this

10:39 is a great segue here so if you speak to

10:41 this slide and walk us through a little

10:43 bit and then of course the root of trust

10:47 which we all understand to some degree how does that

10:49 factor in. And that's the beauty of it kind of

10:53 the approach that I took of

10:56 whether you're consuming something like

10:58 CyberArk self-hosted or as a service or

11:02 sort of in your own clouds as an example

11:04 all those secrets that are being managed

11:08 we've got what I believe to be an

11:10 incredible encryption stack multiple

11:12 layers but there's always the one seed.

11:16 The key we call it the Server Key is our

11:19 is our name for it the key that starts

11:22 the decryption process and forms the

11:24 foundation of encryption operations at the very beginning.

11:28 Where that key should live and where it

11:30 does live is inside of Thales Luna HSMs either

11:34 Luna on-prem or Luna cloud so every

11:37 single decryption operation in the

11:40 initial chain to the intermediate to the

11:43 very end of it is leveraging Luna to

11:46 store that sort of key to the

11:48 proverbial kingdom right the one key to

11:50 rule them all I know it's a Lord of the

11:51 Rings reference but I think it's very

11:53 much applicable here and I’ll tell you

11:55 it's a no-brainer that's what

11:57 we have to do at the beginning of every

12:00 single deployment of something as

12:02 powerful as CyberArk not to mention the

12:04 other security tools you have in the mix, too.

12:06 Right, so really it's this simple

12:10 you can choose to do it like we said we

12:11 said on-prem you can move it to the

12:13 cloud you can have a combination of but

12:15 you're not you're not deciding at the

12:18 at the beginning and not able to

12:21 change it you're doing exactly

12:23 the opposite, you can transition you can

12:25 migrate and you can move portions of

12:27 your enterprise but nothing changes in

12:29 terms of the root of trust because as

12:31 it should be described the Luna HSMs

12:34 whether it's in our cloud offering it's

12:36 still a Luna and the nice thing about going to the cloud

12:39 is you don't have to have a whole lot of

12:41 cryptographic sensibility and

12:43 know-how and expertise in your

12:45 organization but I digress what we're

12:47 really seeing is as long as there's a

12:49 Luna at the back end where it's located

12:51 is almost secondary.

12:53 I think that's an incredibly

12:55 important note because we talked about transformation

12:58 there shouldn't be a question to

13:00 your organization about whether to if it

13:02 makes sense for you continue

13:04 utilizing existing data centers that you

13:07 have but if you see that value whether it's

13:12 automation value whether it's cost value

13:14 whatever it is of moving something like

13:17 our platforms to the cloud or as

13:19 infrastructure as a service

13:21 do it. You shouldn't have to choose

13:23 you shouldn't have to sacrifice and

13:25 again another piece of the beauty of

13:27 evolving together and listening to

13:30 mutual customer asks and even customer

13:32 challenges in order to make sure that

13:35 we're actually putting stuff together

13:37 that you can use not just stuff that we

13:39 think is really cool but yeah it's also pretty neat too.

13:43 You had mentioned to me as well in our

13:44 conversations prior to our discussion

13:46 today that there could be an element from the

13:50 DevOps point of view or the DevSecOps

13:52 which is a bit of a challenge is

13:55 do I or do I rely on waterfall am I

13:58 moving to agile what I'm doing from

14:00 a developmental point of view

14:02 this probably in the sense of this slide

14:04 speaks a little bit to that maybe you

14:06 can walk us through a little bit about

14:07 how the developers

14:09 who are looking to build these solutions

14:10 with our solutions how does that affect them?

14:17 So you know we talked a little bit about

14:19 I’ll call it the migration of

14:23 application development models and even

14:25 application or sort of architecture

14:27 from the more monolithic apps of

14:29 yesteryear right your J2V

14:32 application servers stuff like that to

14:35 the services that make up your pipelines

14:37 these days we've sort of changed the

14:39 way we look at obviously the operational

14:42 elements but also security too and what

14:45 I mean by that is once we've established a strong

14:49 foundation, that sort of route of trust securing all

14:54 the secrets that are part of the org

14:57 why not take it a step further both from

15:00 an application integration perspective a

15:01 developer experience perspective too but

15:05 also, making that encryption a little bit more portable.

15:09 What you're seeing here is sort of the

15:11 evolution of on the CyberArk side,

15:15 our view of application security

15:20 we used to look at app to app as a

15:24 secret zero problem. So for instance,

15:27 you take the secret that's hard-coded

15:30 in your application code maybe it's a

15:32 vulnerability scan or something like

15:33 that you place it into CyberArk of

15:36 course backed by Luna HSM

15:39 security, but then how do you authenticate your

15:42 application to CyberArk to then pull the secret that

15:47 you originally put into CyberArk right.

15:50 The challenge there was

15:52 authenticating the application and we

15:54 looked at things in a very wholistic way

15:56 let's authenticate an app based on

15:58 what it is not what it knows

16:01 stuff like where it's running from what

16:03 user it's running as actually taking a

16:06 signature or a hash of the calling stack

16:08 or individual classes and pardon my Java

16:11 ease, I realize that's a little

16:12 bit old school but that had to shift

16:15 into modern days because we have new

16:17 layers of trust as an example and new context

16:21 your apps are running in the cloud

16:23 authenticate them using cloud native

16:25 stuff roles as an example managed identity

16:28 you've got applications running in

16:30 Openshift or Kubernetes well they're

16:31 native mechanisms of trust so as

16:34 applications miniaturized and became

16:36 services based there became this whole

16:39 new realm of mechanisms of trust of

16:42 secrets delivery and what that birthed

16:44 was CyberArk Conjur our way to be sure

16:47 that no matter what sort of age the

16:50 application happened to be created in

16:52 that we had this notion of strong

16:54 authentication and of strong access and

16:58 secrets delivery for those apps too and

17:00 the best part that didn't change here

17:03 was that we had the root of trust secure

17:06 so this was an additive mechanism on top

17:09 of all the work that we've done together, Blair.

17:12 Absolutely and I think the evolution or

17:16 the “change that is inevitable”,

17:19 is the underlying premise that things

17:21 have to be able to change on the fly and

17:23 I think this is this you mentioned

17:25 hard-coded - the two dirtiest words in

17:28 in security development -

17:30 that's one of the things that we talk a

17:32 lot about with our customers is how do

17:34 we future-proof our solutions, how do we

17:37 design them so that we don't have to

17:38 make massive rip and replace changes to

17:41 our code base and how do we migrate

17:43 things back and forth because as you

17:44 said you know there's a lot of change

17:47 that's coming and not everybody's going

17:49 to be on the exact same page the same

17:51 song sheet per se from a development

17:53 point of view and from a delivery of an

17:54 application point of view so I think

17:56 this is a really good way to just say to

17:59 people it's okay you're all right we've

18:01 got this covered we're better together

18:04 we're a little bit like PB and J

18:06 you know I don't know what you feel but

18:08 that's kind of a common thing if they work as good as

18:11 peanut butter and jelly I had to explain

18:13 it out loud I guess then we're in

18:16 pretty good shape

18:17 I do want to make sure that we

18:19 have enough time to walk through a

18:21 little bit about what are we here

18:22 to talk about today and you can see in

18:24 this slide here that we talk a little

18:25 bit about the Conjur side a little bit

18:27 about the Thales or the CipherTrust

18:29 Platform let's move to the next slide

18:31 and let's walk through a little bit of the actual

18:34 solution set that we're talking about

18:36 today again rooted in trust with

18:39 Luna so I'm happy to walk you through

18:41 these points but you know being that

18:43 you're with CyberArk and I've got the mouse ready to go

18:47 here, I'm just going to click on the

18:49 button here. I can definitely step through

18:53 it so we talked about the foundation of trust

18:57 we'll get more to that later but that

18:59 idea of encryption the idea of

19:01 delivering secrets to applications

19:04 those of you who have been sort of

19:06 reading the previous you probably

19:07 thought all right well let's put this

19:09 stuff in action let's see how something

19:11 like secrets management and secure

19:14 delivery can also help us secure encryption and

19:18 tokenization that you're potentially

19:20 going to be doing with

19:22 CipherTrust so it's those same recipes

19:24 right it's the peanut butter it's

19:26 the jelly it's the bread but Blair now

19:28 we're now we're like grilling it right

19:30 now we're making it this artisan PBJ

19:33 versus the one that that you had like

19:35 when you were eight so here's how

19:37 this kind of new element of our

19:39 partnership works together and Blair I

19:41 can click you can click one of us can

19:43 click it'll all work out but it

19:45 starts with that idea of managing the

19:48 secret in this case we've just added one

19:52 more to the hundreds that we manage the

19:55 credential that's used as an example to

19:57 authenticate CipherTrust by

19:59 applications to perform encryption and

20:02 tokenization tasks so

20:05 managed within CyberArk we're actually

20:07 doing rotations so you don't have to do

20:09 that manual anymore.

20:11 If our applications are a little bit

20:14 more modern, containerized as an example,

20:16 microservices based that's cool what

20:19 they can do is they can do that same

20:21 attribute authentication I mentioned

20:23 earlier to authenticate to the CyberArk Conjur service,

20:27 grab the secret they need to do those

20:30 encryption and tokenization tasks, and

20:33 then actually authenticate to

20:35 CipherTrust to perform the work

20:38 you never have to worry about managing

20:41 that secret again you never have to

20:42 worry about manual invocation, your apps

20:45 reach up grab it down, knob it around and

20:48 use it to perform the tasks they need so

20:51 you can automate this stuff and make it

20:53 the foundation of the pipeline versus

20:55 something that might need some sort of

20:58 human intervention which as we all know

21:01 you put a human into the equation of a

21:02 pipeline, things tend to get a little a little lopsided.

21:07 Now the best part is some of the

21:10 transparent security that's going on

21:13 because just as we had started our conversation

21:17 every single piece of this where the

21:19 secret is stored, to the elements of

21:22 CipherTrust, to even sort of the what

21:25 I’ll call the central secret delivery

21:28 mechanism of Conjur,

21:30 all backed by Thales Luna HSMs.

21:33 Great, I think it's the perfect world

21:36 that we've tried to establish here.

21:39 You know, when I when I look at this

21:41 diagram and I think for the person who is

21:43 considering this approach I think what's

21:45 what's interesting here is that our the

21:47 genesis of the solution was actually our

21:50 two companies looking at each other and

21:51 figuring out how do we provide an

21:53 enterprise DevSecOps environment that

21:55 has the CyberArk elements and that has the Thales elements

21:59 but also one how do we make them work together so

22:04 to add to this the way that this

22:05 actually works is the CyberArk engine

22:08 is actually making the calls through our

22:09 rest APIs to the CipherTrust platform

22:12 for the encryption, for the

22:14 tokenization, as you described so that's

22:17 phase one we haven't really we're only

22:19 you know at the tip of the iceberg in

22:21 terms of how this is going to evolve and

22:23 so our customers that are using this and

22:25 looking at this are actually giving us

22:27 feedback in real time and explaining to

22:30 us and describing back to us how it

22:33 would be best to work together so we're

22:34 really excited about a number of large

22:37 enterprise customers who are who are

22:40 working with this as we speak

22:42 and as I said better to have their

22:44 feedback as to how it should and would

22:46 work as much as we design and hope that they

22:49 use it the way that we've designed it so

22:51 I just want to bring that to light

22:53 that this is available today and that

22:55 customers can reach out to us or

22:57 prospects I should say if you're a sales

22:59 organization you can reach out and we

23:01 can fill in some of the gaps.

23:04 Yeah, incredibly well spoken and while I

23:06 do like to think that

23:08 both our partnership as well as all

23:11 of our kind of new integrations came

23:14 about because we decided to mutually go

23:16 out for ice cream one day which we

23:18 actually should do at some point what

23:21 it really was what it was it was driven

23:23 by all of you who are watching

23:25 challenging us to be better even looking

23:26 at existing integrations and say CyberArk/Thales,

23:28 did you all think about this

23:30 or any considered that like

23:33 again we come up with our own good

23:35 ideas but they are nothing compared to

23:37 the feedback that you all give us so

23:40 whether it's pat's on the back

23:42 whether it's things that you like

23:44 or whether it's things we can do better

23:45whether you're, to Blair's point, if

23:47 you're an existing customer let us know

23:49 but even if you're not these are

23:51 things that we always look at improving because

23:55 no matter how we look at it we're

23:57 security companies and our goal

24:00 is to sell software and hardware but

24:03 it's to secure everything that we

24:05 possibly can to make the organizations

24:07 that Blair you and me patronize a

24:09 little bit more secured to because

24:11 that's our data that many of you have as

24:13 well so vested interest in in making

24:15 this stuff better and making the world a

24:17 more secure place for sure

24:19 yeah exactly Brandon so these resource

24:21 links are available at any time so I’ll

24:23 I’ll leave that to the people that

24:26 download this and want to watch it afterwards so

24:29 let's wrap up and on a high note and

24:31 if we could just kind of summarize that

24:33 the two organizations which we

24:35 represent like I said and you've said

24:37 we've been working together for a number

24:39 of years, we're continuing to

24:42 work together to solve some of these problems

24:45 never has there been a better time for a

24:47 DevSecOps enterprise to look at this problem

24:53 through our lens and we'll

24:55 work with those joint

24:57 customers to solve for those problems.

25:00 How would you want if you had to leave

25:02 one thing behind from maybe a thought

25:04 that a provocative thought is there

25:06 anything Brandon that comes to mind.

25:08 I think, Blair, you're a

25:11 hard act to follow when it comes to

25:12 parting thoughts but if I could

25:14 regardless of where you happen to be

25:17 on your security or app journey, if

25:19 it's still human stuff that

25:21 you're managing, look at

25:24 the integrations that we've built long

25:26 term as you start to evolve even if

25:28 you're at the very beginning,

25:30 you're wondering hey do we use

25:32 Kubernetes or do we pop over to Red Hat

25:35 and do something with Openshift -

25:38 let us know, let your vendors help out,

25:40 challenge us to assist, for some

25:42 this notion of DevSecOps is a whole

25:45 new language and folks like CyberArk and

25:48 Thales are here to help you out as well

25:50 so don't let the change in language

25:52 sort of stop you from building

25:55 security into the design early or

25:58 implementing it into the existing design

26:00 that's what we're here for that's what

26:01 we talk about all the time so let us

26:04 help you out if it's an area that you're

26:05 looking at. Great parting thoughts, Brandon, as

26:10 you mentioned Red Hat, a joint partner of

26:12 all of ours, we're more than happy to

26:14 discuss these things at any time so

26:16 again just want to say thank you for

26:17 attending today and participating enlightening us

26:20 and we look forward to working with you

26:23 and as those who are watching

26:26 please reach out to us the details are

26:28 there and wanted to say thank you for listening.

26:32 Thank you all, thanks Blaire.

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